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Author	Topic: How much of a difference have you noticed between e-0, e- 10 and e-85	Post a Reply Back to Topics

roadrunnin Champion Author Richmond Posts:1,760 Points:567,105 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Aug 1, 2011 10:16:26 PM Ignore roadrunnin Report Abuse How significant a difference do you notice in vehicle performance when using pure gasoline vs e-10 or e-85? What gets you the best mpg? What about "pep" for acceleration, hauling or towing?

roadrunnin

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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2011 10:16:26 PM

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How significant a difference do you notice in vehicle performance when using pure gasoline vs e-10 or e-85? What gets you the best mpg? What about "pep" for acceleration, hauling or towing?

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roadrunnin Champion Author Richmond Posts:1,760 Points:567,105 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Sep 17, 2011 2:59:15 PM Ignore roadrunnin Report Abuse @ oceanarcher that's the dilema with ethanol
OceanArcher Champion Author Mississippi Posts:5,723 Points:1,331,300 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Sep 17, 2011 8:30:41 AM Ignore OceanArcher Report Abuse Only thing I notice, is --> the higher the "E value", the lower my MPG goes
goldseeker Champion Author West Virginia Posts:19,573 Points:2,721,740 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Sep 16, 2011 11:28:07 PM Ignore goldseeker Report Abuse I have made comparison tests for over 20 years and I show little or no difference on E10, a slight difference on E20 and about a 5% drop on E37.
roadrunnin Champion Author Richmond Posts:1,760 Points:567,105 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Sep 16, 2011 10:46:14 PM Ignore roadrunnin Report Abuse been calculating to see if e-0 is cost effective or not. it really depends on how low e-10 prices fall
MertieMan Champion Author Lexington Posts:14,803 Points:2,898,535 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Sep 11, 2011 7:29:57 AM Ignore MertieMan Report Abuse It is all junk that drastically cuts down my miles per gallon.
drunkhabib Champion Author North Carolina Posts:20,679 Points:2,968,845 Joined:Oct 2003	Message Posted: Sep 10, 2011 7:51:17 PM Ignore drunkhabib Report Abuse i hate ethanol period
stickyvalves Champion Author Iowa Posts:5,290 Points:1,560,645 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Sep 10, 2011 3:22:35 PM Ignore stickyvalves Report Abuse E0 to gasohol(E10) lose 2.5% gasohol to E85 lose 20% This info is from repeated 2000 mile tests in all weather conditions in Iowa. I use E85 when it is priced at 20% less than gasohol.
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,343 Points:732,060 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Sep 10, 2011 9:10:53 AM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse "How significant a difference do you notice in vehicle performance when using pure gasoline vs e-10 or e-85?" I use E85 in my turbocharged vehicle and from the performance stand point it works like racing gas at the fraction of the price. [Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 9/10/2011 10:12:15 AM EST]
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,145 Points:1,825,050 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Sep 10, 2011 9:05:41 AM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse Edmunds compare E85 to gasoline (e0) Quite informative comparison Gas/E85 difference: The fuel economy of our Tahoe on E85, under these conditions, was 26.5 percent worse than it was when running on gas.
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2011 8:59:25 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse Let me try this again. You need LESS throttle.
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2011 8:45:18 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse "yes it adjusts the fuel air ratio. it BURNS MORE FUEL." Doesn;t work that way. If less air is needed to burn a given quantity of fuel, the same amount of fuel is needed to push the car down the road. You just don't need less throttle. What you are implying would be true only of you drove at full throttle all the time.
nerys Rookie Author New Jersey Posts:23 Points:38,310 Joined:Nov 2009	Message Posted: Aug 24, 2011 3:50:22 PM Ignore nerys Report Abuse yes it adjusts the fuel air ratio. it BURNS MORE FUEL. my differences are "dramatic" 15-27% losses in fuel economy and this problem is eliminated the MOMENT I fill with E0 (much harder to do now) in fact I had to GIVE UP my wonderful awesome comfy minivan (28mpg) it sits ROTTING in my yard because I can't afford to drive it on E10 at 19mpg. SO now I have to drive a stinking geo metro. don't get me wrong i LOVE my geo and I LOVE the 50-60mpg I can squeeze out of it. but its NO WHERE CLOSE to as comfy as my minivan. and no air. but I can NOT afford to put an extra nearly 500 gallons of gasoline into the minivan per year. thats almost $2000 more in fuel per year (I drive 40,000 miles or more) E10 = Anal Raping.
JediKnight Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:4,848 Points:2,034,735 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Aug 15, 2011 9:52:57 AM Ignore JediKnight Report Abuse Course you could question if the "E0" being used is actually E0 or just improperly marked E10. (Some markets/stations don't clearly mark their pumps) Personally the differences I've seen between E0 and E10 are what I'd call insignificant, particularly if I rely on the E10 haters around here that say it's a 10-15% drop in MPG (or higher). A 3 to 4.5 MPG average swing (on a 30MPG vehicle) is significant. Probably means something is wrong, particularly on a newer vehicle which should adjust it's air/fuel ratio as needed. I certainly don't see swings that high and any swings I do see can usually be marked up as a change in driving style (city/highway/fast/slow) vs fuel.
Sam202 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:2,027 Points:400,855 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Aug 15, 2011 7:26:00 AM Ignore Sam202 Report Abuse ???
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Aug 15, 2011 6:13:32 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse "Something else is in play here, whether you grant that or not. E10 over time and all other things being equal, absolutely will provide lower mpg than E0. Either things were not equal, or _____ fill in the blank. (opinion, but true)" What can I say. I drove the miles. You didn't. My experience, slso, coincides with the ACE pilot study and oil company tests.
stanleyvision All-Star Author San Diego Posts:869 Points:439,595 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 15, 2011 1:09:50 AM Ignore stanleyvision Report Abuse Not much difference
roadrunnin Champion Author Richmond Posts:1,760 Points:567,105 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Aug 14, 2011 10:53:44 PM Ignore roadrunnin Report Abuse thanx for everyone's experiences. i've been trying to decide weather e0 is worth the extra price for what i have to pay for it [and only 1 local station sells it]
movrshakr Champion Author Florida Posts:1,323 Points:1,451,375 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Aug 14, 2011 5:56:12 PM Ignore movrshakr Report Abuse . GM, I am sorry, but I do not believe that over a long period you got same mpg with E10 as E0. Or you were the recipient of a miracle. That can happen on one tankful (for example because it is nearly impossible to fill a tank in succession to exactly the same fill percentage). On longterm repeated runs such as you suggest, it would average out, and E10 would be lower mpg than E0. Something else is in play here, whether you grant that or not. E10 over time and all other things being equal, absolutely will provide lower mpg than E0. Either things were not equal, or _____ fill in the blank. (opinion, but true) [Edited by: movrshakr at 8/14/2011 7:01:04 PM EST]
tattoo666TX Champion Author Texas Posts:2,567 Points:344,480 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2011 11:17:13 PM Ignore tattoo666TX Report Abuse Also, for reb4. Here is the truth about how they get the highway mileage ratings that are posted on the window sticker. 55 mph flat ground no wind no rain no hills 79 degree outside no a/c running So basically a flat road out in the middle of nowhere America on a perfect day with no other traffic in site. Or indoors with the drive wheels on the rollers where they can completely control the enviroment to get what is listed above.
tattoo666TX Champion Author Texas Posts:2,567 Points:344,480 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2011 11:08:40 PM Ignore tattoo666TX Report Abuse I wish I could find non-e gas somewhere. With up to 10% I can get around 450-500 miles a tank. On the E85 it drops to about 300 per tank. The thing is running alcohol takes more to get the same power to get the engine to run the way it should, so less mileage per gallon.
roadrunnin Champion Author Richmond Posts:1,760 Points:567,105 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2011 10:14:01 PM Ignore roadrunnin Report Abuse what a shame the mpg is all in calculations instead of better tests.
Harry813 Champion Author Iowa Posts:3,020 Points:664,790 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2011 4:50:21 PM Ignore Harry813 Report Abuse I do not notice a performance difference, But…. 6-8 MPG less with E85
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2011 4:19:45 PM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse "But did you drive "hundreds of thousands of miles" using E0 at the same time over the same roads with the same vehicle, same winds, same temperatures, same time of year, etc etc? No? } Actually, yes. For over two decades, I would make the trip from Arlington Heights, Illinois to Central Iowa. The trip out would be on a fully purged tank of regular gasoline, containing no ethanol> The trip back would be with the Iowa midgrade E10 blend. Same roads, cruise control, same pee stop at Iowa 80 truck stop, same darned distance within a few tenths of a mile. I may have even used the same pencil and pad of paper to divide the miles driven by the gallons of fuel consumed. Excluding the trips with strong headwinds or strong tailwinds, it's the same mile per gallon. Figuring the number of trips taken over two decades, when Illinois had sans ethanol gasoline, I did this for 60,000 miles or more over the same damn boring stretch of road.
movrshakr Champion Author Florida Posts:1,323 Points:1,451,375 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2011 2:24:57 PM Ignore movrshakr Report Abuse . "What can I say. I've driven hundreds of thousands of miles with e10 and gasoline and don't see a difference." But did you drive "hundreds of thousands of miles" using E0 at the same time over the same roads with the same vehicle, same winds, same temperatures, same time of year, etc etc? No? Therefore, there is no way you can legitimately say you see no difference. Yet, you do say it. To me, that means nothing you say can be given any credence at all. [Edited by: movrshakr at 8/13/2011 3:26:39 PM EST]
MilestoneMotors All-Star Author Allentown Posts:605 Points:385,020 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2011 9:57:00 AM Ignore MilestoneMotors Report Abuse In the HHR, I've noticed that I get the "city" rating of about 22 on straight e85. I've also noticed that the extreme heat and running A/C had more of an impact on e85 than on regular gasoline. With the recent huge drop in gas close to me, it's not worth the cost for e85 right now.
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Aug 13, 2011 8:53:02 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse "Consumer Reports tested E85 in a flex fuel vehicle and got these results " I think consumer reports used the onboard computer in that test to determine fuel economy. In theory, the onboard computer will favor gasoline, since ethanol is about 12% denser than gasoline. GM also eliminated the ethanol sensor in their FFVs in 2005. Even though the car is designed to run on E85, the cars computer has no way of telling the difference between ethanol and gasoline, when it comes to fuel calculation. Subtract the inherent error and you get a number similar to the fleet strials conducted: about a 5% difference.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,148 Points:2,188,085 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2011 5:06:12 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse He speculated that a vehicle with a "flaw" was used. He was never able to prove if it actually had a flawone way or another, or if the "flaw" had any significance to the test...
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,952 Points:2,219,425 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2011 4:53:39 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse NICHOLLSJL supplied information that Consumer Reports used a flawed vehicle for their test: Scroll down to March 16
EWKearns Rookie Author North Carolina Posts:3 Points:3,160 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2011 11:45:44 AM Ignore EWKearns Report Abuse I'm seeing at least a 15% drop in highway mileage when running E10 vs. E0. Biggest CoO difference is replacing fuel system parts in anything not a daily driver... second cars, boats, weed eaters, etc. And if you have a 2-stroke engine without an oil injection pump.... you're screwed....
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,145 Points:1,825,050 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2011 10:38:12 AM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse shows the e85 really doesn't isn't worth it unless 20% cheaper, and you don't mind going to the gas station more often...
kimo31 Champion Author Orange County Posts:9,922 Points:2,581,070 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Aug 12, 2011 10:05:50 AM Ignore kimo31 Report Abuse Consumer Reports tested E85 in a flex fuel vehicle and got these results Consumer Reports E85 Test Results
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,145 Points:1,825,050 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Aug 11, 2011 11:11:57 AM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse gm1954- isn't it odd you can't post a link to backup your arguement. it's point #3 in the general forum guidelines. Back up your arguments with facts. Where possible, facts should be supported by a link to a respected Internet source. Now you have indicated these are facts, you indicated it was on a web site. I asked you for specifics. So you can't back up your arguement?also I have posted the information. I was in a new car showroom that clearly had the mpg for e85 posted on it... it was in the public. I posted the site where you can get the information for the MPG from the epa site. You provide nothing to backup your claims.
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Aug 11, 2011 10:46:47 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse reb4 , if you seaarch the term "indolene clear", you will get thsousands of references. Dictionary.com will lead you to a review article on EPA testing. The best source is the EPA website. Its there. Just cut and paste the term "indolene clear". You can do it. "Isn't that odd how you can disprove the car manufacturers and the government that e10 gets about the same fuel economy as regular gas. " First, the car makers do not release fuel economy test results to anyone in the public. How many hours do you think it would take for a law suit to pop up, claiming that the new car owner couldn't obtain the car maker's test results. Second, as stated a couple times previously, the EPA does not test gasoline or ethanol. It's a calculated estimate. No conspiracy.
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,145 Points:1,825,050 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Aug 11, 2011 8:54:06 AM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse GM1954- So, since it's on the website - provide the link... Isn't that odd how you can disprove the car manufacturers and the government that e10 gets about the same fuel economy as regular gas. Sounds like a real conspiracy by government, Consumers reports, and others..
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Aug 11, 2011 8:00:50 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse reb4, it on the EPA website. You will find the test procedures. What part of the EPA tests not using pump gasoline or ethanol to obtain their estimates do you need explained to you? "And still leaves the overwhelming documented loss of mpg contrasicting the claims of quite a few here who maintain the loss of mpg is insignificant." What can I say. I've driven hundreds of thousands of miles with e10 and gasoline and don't see a difference. I've driven over 100,000 miles on e85 and see almost an indistinguishable difference. That, by the way conincides with data from the oil companies and tests conducted by the RFA and independant pilot projects.
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,145 Points:1,825,050 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Aug 11, 2011 7:20:17 AM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse gm1954 - please post your link backing up your claim and also, explain the significance of this bit of information. And still leaves the overwhelming documented loss of mpg contrasicting the claims of quite a few here who maintain the loss of mpg is insignificant. [Edited by: reb4 at 8/11/2011 8:22:18 AM EST]
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Aug 11, 2011 6:01:18 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse "The EPA fuel economy tests use 100 percent gasoline," It's certainly not gasoline you will ever find in any retail station. The EPA test uses a compound called Indolene Clear. It's a reference standard used to conduct the test. All values are then calculated based on that fuel: pump gasoline and ethanol.
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,145 Points:1,825,050 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Aug 10, 2011 7:55:52 PM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse significant. The MPG posted on new cars is using e0, not e10. Do EPA fuel economy estimates account for the use of ethanol blends that are common today? No. The EPA fuel economy tests use 100 percent gasoline, and no adjustments are made to account for ethanol. Most conventional vehicles using E10 (10 percent ethanol) will experience a 3 to 4 percent reduction in fuel economy. 2012 MPG ratings of FFV - from U.S. Department of energy - and other pertinent information about mpg and ethanol
sluggopyle Champion Author North Carolina Posts:23,608 Points:1,075,890 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Aug 10, 2011 1:02:54 PM Ignore sluggopyle Report Abuse 15 to 20% loss on E10 compared to E0. E85: does not apply.
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,952 Points:2,219,425 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Aug 9, 2011 4:43:31 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse In the 3-1/2 years that I've been keeping detailed milage records, both of my cars have shown significant difference in milage between summer and winter, with summer giving better milage. I have no way of knowing if the difference is due to the fuel, the thermal loss, or a combination. As I said before, I have seen no significant difference in milage at any ethanol blend.
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,343 Points:732,060 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Aug 9, 2011 2:25:51 PM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse "no options and in summertime, the special summer blend we get worse..." I always thought that summer blend always produced better MPGs.
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,145 Points:1,825,050 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Aug 9, 2011 12:24:36 PM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse cummins2500, so true, yet some of the people that are e85 advocates claim not loss in mpg... paylessky, i'm in the same boat as you.. no options and in summertime, the special summer blend we get worse... planoiceman, isn't e10 mandatory around the metro areas in Texas???
Cummins2500 Champion Author Iowa Posts:3,128 Points:752,375 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Aug 9, 2011 11:56:35 AM Ignore Cummins2500 Report Abuse BTW the words between " " I'm Quoting Poets own words from one of there monthly Ethanol fact as printed in our local monthly new letter. "Ethanol Myth #5: Cars get lower gas mileage with Ethanol. Well, OK, this one is not a Myth ~ it is True. If you burn a gallon of gas and a gallon of E85, you will get 25% less energy from E85. When consumers are using E85 in flex fuel vehicles, they get 25% less mileage."
PaylessKY Champion Author Kentucky Posts:8,750 Points:1,585,450 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 8, 2011 11:58:07 PM Ignore PaylessKY Report Abuse Since ethanol is mandatory in my area, I have not tried gasoline with out it.
myleo Rookie Author Dallas Posts:3 Points:59,245 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Aug 7, 2011 11:45:10 AM Ignore myleo Report Abuse i have found significant difference gas mileage is usually lower with the 10% blend.
planoiceman Champion Author Dallas Posts:3,292 Points:479,165 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Aug 7, 2011 11:22:55 AM Ignore planoiceman Report Abuse Just returned from a trip to Canada from Texas. Drove our 2005 Lexus RX-330. Filled up at the same gas station in Iowa on the north and south bound legs. The less expensive gas - mid range with e-10, resulted in a drop in average mpg by almost 15%. Filling up with the more expensive regular grade e-0 returned avg mpg to normal range. Cost per mile was better for the e-0 regular than it was for the less expensive mid grade e-10. Poor fuel economy, along with huge subsidies from government, for ethanol tells me its not a great bargain. Ethanol is not the solution.
roadrunnin Champion Author Richmond Posts:1,760 Points:567,105 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Aug 6, 2011 10:11:38 PM Ignore roadrunnin Report Abuse thanks ss - i read that one guys horror story about ruining his car w/ e-10 from his own tank, definitely wouldn't want anything like that, even if it was a bit of a strange situation.
joshtheboxer Rookie Author North Carolina Posts:10 Points:401,580 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Aug 6, 2011 9:25:16 AM Ignore joshtheboxer Report Abuse I have a 2010 Chevy Silverado with the active fuel management (can run on 4 cylinders when "under light loads") - I get about 17 MPG city with e10 and up to 23 highway (at 55mph) - using e85 I get 14 MPG city and about 18 hwy. The price of e85 was about the same for a time and difficult to find, but the price has come down and there are more stations now. Doing the math, using regular gas is a little less expensive.
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Aug 6, 2011 9:07:21 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse I've driven almot 100,000 miles with E85 over the past 9 years. It's really difficult to see any difference in performance or fuel economy. The difference might be less than one mile per gallon. We bought the 2002 Tahoe for the specific reason to burn E85. We also burned E85 in a 1994 Dodge Ram 2500 half the time. The one thing we do is use a pencil and divide the miles driven by gallons of fuel consumed. We've done this after almost every tank of fuel: that's hundreds of times. the difference between E85 and regular gasoline is just too close to call, for us.
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,952 Points:2,219,425 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Aug 5, 2011 12:11:16 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse roadrunnin, if you're considering using E85 in your non-FFVs, make sure you start blending it in a little at a time. Otherwise, the water and crud in the bottom of a gas tank that has had only regular gas can get absorbed by the ethanol and too much could plug up your filter or worse. When I started out, I increased by about a half gallon E85 per tank full and had no problems with my cars.