nurdco
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Colorado Springs
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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2011 10:09:05 PM
probably the oxygen sensor from poor fuel mixture especially if Western Convenience fuel purchase
Burn some Shell
[Edited by: nurdco at 10/27/2011 11:11:13 PM EST]
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JediKnight
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Wisconsin
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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2011 11:14:45 AM
If you have $30 and a Laptop Computer this OBDII scanner is fairly versatile. Unless you have a local store/shop that will pull the codes for free.
http://www.amazon.com/ElmScan-Compact-OBD-II-Diagnostic-Software/dp/B002PYBZJO
You can then easily find out if maybe it is just an O2 Sensor or maybe the Gas Cap.
If the above device finds a code it usually gives me two different sources for the OBDII code. Each will suggest What the code means and usually what might have caused it. Reading them both... I've usually been able to determine what it is. After fixing it and resetting the Light. It rarely comes back.
Big thing is that the light could be "hiding" multiple codes or issues. So it's always important to check them not make assumptions that each time the light may flash or stay on is because of whatever caused it to go on the last time.
So always check it, fix it, reset it and maybe even on occasion monitor the OBDII readings to look for PENDING code(s) and/or get a baseline reading of what your vehicle is doing "normally". Maybe even compare baseline of E0/E10/E15 etc. so you can know if the light goes off and readings aren't similar to the baseline... Maybe it is a bad sensor or loose wiring and not the tank of E10 you just filled up with.
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Cummins2500
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Iowa
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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2011 8:48:35 PM
Heck even not tightening the gas cap all the way can cause the CEL to come on thus it may not of been the gas or it could be a bad O2 sensor.
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JediKnight
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Wisconsin
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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2011 4:52:26 PM
While it can... the question should be asked "Why?".
Most any vehicle on the road today (unless it has a Carb and is like over 30 years old)... Should easily be able to adjust to E10.
The Check Engine Light coming on because you "topped off" with E10... (which if blended with E0 is probably more like E5 or something) might be a simple Loose Gas Cap or leak in the Emissions system.
Scan for codes and determine exactly Why the light is on.
So many people it seems just ignore the light and ascribe all kinds of nonsensical reasons for it. (All of them usually "ignorable" like "The Car Company just wants me to bring it in..." when in reality the vehicle is begging for attention. Meaning it'll cost you more money down the road by not fixing it now.)
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hockey#14
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Vermont
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Message Posted: Oct 24, 2011 4:24:49 PM
yes it can
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fsufan11
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Jacksonville
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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2011 9:32:45 AM
No
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sluggopyle
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North Carolina
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2011 9:28:40 AM
Jstaton: If I remember correctly his mileage drop is much more, like many of us. Mine drops by 15 to 20& --more than the ethanol content itself.
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jstaton
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South Carolina
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2011 9:24:07 AM
More than about 40% ethanol in my 97 Isuzu Rodeo will kick on the check engine light. Adding gasoline to sweeten the mix clears it up.
Oceanarcher: Is your drop in mileage about the amount you'd expect (i.e., slight) going from gasoline/mtbe to gasoline/ethanol? or is it more of a drop than the lower energy content of the ethanol would account for?
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movrshakr
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Florida
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Message Posted: Oct 6, 2011 6:31:24 PM
.
I have a car that periodically throws a P0420 code. Fill up with a different tank of gas, and it goes away.
It is not brand specific--can occur with anything I put in, and any brand refill (I always choose a different station than what was in tank) seems to clear it.
On one occasion, I had to manually clear it with the code reader, but it did not come back until the next random time (months).
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JediKnight
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Wisconsin
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Message Posted: Oct 6, 2011 3:15:58 PM
Agreed. An OBDII vehicle (1996-Present) should be able to adjust to E10. If it can't (and throws a light/code) well then something else is wrong which the E10 helped uncover.
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stickyvalves
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Iowa
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Message Posted: Oct 6, 2011 8:47:49 AM
To answer the original question; probably not.
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OceanArcher
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Mississippi
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Message Posted: Oct 6, 2011 6:59:32 AM
My family has three different Saturns - '93 sw2, '02 L200, and '09 Aura XE. All exhibit a similar drop in mileage between E0 and E10, but none of them trip the CEL. I have not experimented with E85 yet ...
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Outie
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New Brunswick
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Message Posted: Oct 5, 2011 10:12:52 PM
0420 is Catylist efficiency below threshole
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movrshakr
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Florida
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Message Posted: Oct 5, 2011 3:22:14 PM
.
Temperatures change when ethanol is introduced. It is not common, but it is possible that a car with a parameter running on "an edge" of acceptable range may move out of the range on ethanol, and the light come on.
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ReddevilNO
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New Orleans
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Message Posted: Oct 5, 2011 11:29:15 AM
No way!
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furball64801
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Missouri
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2011 7:25:52 PM
I ran well over 70% and no cel light but then again I have been doing it for over 5 yrs.
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krzysiek_ck
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2011 2:57:46 PM
sluggopyle, we are all good. I was just trying to explain how I put two together. Then again, I still believe your E10 is not a common one.
[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 7/7/2011 3:58:27 PM EST]
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sluggopyle
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North Carolina
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2011 2:47:53 PM
Once again, the name of that thread is "Does gas tainted w/ ethanol making your check engine light go on?". Everything inside there is detail, for which the individual posters are responsible. It's not a thread about P0420; that was one example given (and maybe the only one in there).
Just trying to clarify here- Movrshakr reported a code; I didn't. His code applies to his car, not mine. Hope this helps.
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krzysiek_ck
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2011 2:41:13 PM
You mentioned you got CEL and posted the link to a thread that only mentioned P0420. And that is how I put two together.
[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 7/7/2011 3:41:53 PM EST]
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sluggopyle
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2011 2:34:36 PM
Yes -- that's Movrshakr's code, not mine. It's his thread.
In order to participate in a thread about whether E10 trips a CEL, it's really not necessary that you find the same code as the OP noted. I have no idea if my code was the same as his or anyone else's. That's why I never specified one.
[Edited by: sluggopyle at 7/7/2011 3:42:30 PM EST]
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krzysiek_ck
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2011 2:16:13 PM
First paragraph of the original post in the linked thread:
""Got a P0420 (catalytic out of limits) code. Was checking into getting the converter replaced (nearly $1000 at dealer), and looking for other solutions. Meanwhile, I filled up with E0, and in about 50 miles, the light went out. It has stayed out since even with E10. I think I got a tankful of gas with more than 10% ethanol in it that caused it." movrshakr"
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sluggopyle
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2011 2:10:51 PM
I'm at a loss to understand what you mean. The thread was about whether E10 trips a CEL. No specific code was mentioned there AFAIK. But whatever.
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krzysiek_ck
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2011 1:53:21 PM
You did not posted the code, but the link to a thread talking about code P0420 (ODB2).
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sluggopyle
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North Carolina
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2011 1:40:31 PM
J-Knight: actually I never specified a code I was seeing -- that was Krzysiek_ck that said that.
It's true this is a deduction based on process of elimination; obviously the ECM doesn't talk to me and tell me it's the E10. But previous to this I had two other codes and cleared them up with the indicated maintenance, so the only variable left was E10 (that was at the time I was experimenting and calculating mileage comparisons, so it was seeing both E10 and E0 at different fillups).
And yup, 30 to 24 mpg is pretty drastic (actually for me it drops from a max of hi-40s to hi-30s but same percentage) so I have been avoiding E10 like the plague since I made those calculations. But since I've been strict about what goes in the tank, the CEL hasn't appeared again.
[Edited by: sluggopyle at 7/7/2011 2:45:52 PM EST]
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krzysiek_ck
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2011 12:55:49 PM
Usually it is code 44 for ODB1 computers. Still, it does not mean that it is caused by E10. Usually there is more to it than posted.
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JediKnight
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Wisconsin
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2011 12:46:12 PM
krzysiek_ck,
I haven't read the Code Book for my OBD "1" scanner recently... But I'm fairly certain there are Lean and Rich codes that would be able to alert the driver to an issue.
Not sure where the OBDII code on an older OBD system concern comes up... that isn't possible. That doesn't mean a 1993 and 1996 vehicle could have the same issue. Just that it will report it differently. Realistically E10 should be an issue with either vehicle if everything is working properly, but still if it's running lean/rich it should report a code.
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WEPSMAN
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South Dakota
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2011 12:35:48 PM
My check engine light will come on for a little while if I switch between E-10 and regular unleaded. It only stays on until the computer cn adjust to the change. A few starts and it goes off.
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JediKnight
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Wisconsin
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2011 12:34:37 PM
Alexi7,
E85 in a Non-FFV is a little different subject.
If you happen to remember or want to experiment with E85... it may be best to use a calculator like the one below next time to determine at what E-blend the vehicle will throw a code. Then should you use E-blends above 10% you can be sure to stay below that % level.
http://e85prices.com/milesperdollar.htm
sluggopyle - E10 shouldn't be causing this code or such a significant loss of MPG in a '93 Saturn... (Say 30MPG dropping to 24MPG is drastic.)
But if you have been able to avoid the issue by filling up on E0. More power to you. Since it's been such a long term issue for you... I'll assume you've addressed most of the potential "causes" of the specific code. (along with Spark Plugs, Air Filter, etc...) To allow for some "buffer" as E10 is becoming more and more common Nation-wide (not to mention E15 availability for 2001-Present Autos coming soon.)
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Alexi7
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Ohio
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2011 10:54:31 AM
I blended in a few gallons to my '99 Acura TL and the CEL didn't come on at first, but after the third "blending" of 3-4 gallons it came on and stayed on. MPG has been normal(24-25 mpg in daily driving,29 mpg on trips). I didn't notice any increase in hp with the addition of 105 octane E85.
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krzysiek_ck
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2011 7:43:35 AM
"Sure. 1993 Saturn (twincam engine).
For the record, mileage loss on E10 was a consistent 15 to 20%. Fortunately I haven't been forced to resort to E10 for a couple of years now."
ODB1 computer throwing the ODB2 code. This is a first time I heard such a thing. Keep in mind that you posted the link not me.
[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 7/7/2011 8:46:53 AM EST]
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kdog311
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Dallas
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Message Posted: Jul 6, 2011 7:27:21 PM
I believe so, yes.
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sluggopyle
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North Carolina
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Message Posted: Jul 6, 2011 5:59:52 PM
Sure. 1993 Saturn (twincam engine).
For the record, mileage loss on E10 was a consistent 15 to 20%. Fortunately I haven't been forced to resort to E10 for a couple of years now.
(Note: this topic was explored in depth back here. GasBidet: where every topic is a John Lennon song- "Just Like Starting Over"...)
[Edited by: sluggopyle at 7/6/2011 7:06:22 PM EST]
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krzysiek_ck
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 6, 2011 5:54:01 PM
"Yes, it can. Used to trigger mine all the time. While it's nice to have a warning after the fact, I just avoid ethanol altogether since I calculated the mileage loss. No more CEL."
Can you tell us brand, model, and year?
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sluggopyle
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North Carolina
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Message Posted: Jul 6, 2011 5:47:26 PM
Yes, it can. Used to trigger mine all the time. While it's nice to have a warning after the fact, I just avoid ethanol altogether since I calculated the mileage loss. No more CEL.
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denwabe
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San Jose
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Message Posted: Jul 6, 2011 2:21:39 PM
Have a diagnostic done to find out the problem
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JediKnight
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Wisconsin
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Message Posted: Jul 6, 2011 9:07:58 AM
A great many things could cause a code light being thrown.
Picked up a USB OBD II Scanner on Amazon very cheap and it does a lot more then a typical hand held scanner you might borrow at Autozone.
I have noticed a Lean Code using that Scanner and an E-blend around E50 (upper 40s) on a Non-FFV. Haven't noticed issues when blending E20 or E30 in the tank either.
FYI, E15 was permitted for sale by EPA for use in 2001-Present Automobiles in the last year... I don't think you'd find those specific vehicles having an issue with E15 (or even E20) in my opinion.
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krzysiek_ck
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 5, 2011 10:23:38 AM
No it can not. If you have the check engine light your car is at least ODB1 or newer and it is equipped with the computer that can adjust for 10% ethanol rather easily. Your problem is somewhere else. Also, clearing CEL without fixing the problem will not do you any good as it will come back on rather quickly.
[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 7/5/2011 11:24:15 AM EST]
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OceanArcher
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Mississippi
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Message Posted: Jul 5, 2011 7:27:04 AM
E10 has not made my CEL go on, but it does cut into my mileage a bit ...
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jsoko
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Detroit
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Message Posted: Jul 4, 2011 11:54:26 PM
Just make sure your fuel cap is on tight, this is the most common problem.
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RedRider1OK
All-Star Author
Oklahoma City
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Message Posted: Jul 4, 2011 9:25:02 PM
To answer the author's posted question; Yes, ethanol can make your check engine light go on. It's called "lean burn condition". Most auto parts stores can clear the CEL for free or just put 100% gasoline in your vehicle if its available in your area.
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goldseeker
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West Virginia
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Message Posted: Jul 4, 2011 9:07:21 PM
"I owned a 1987 Nissan that stated it was not recommended to use ethanol gas other" No biggie. My 1987 Ford Ranger's manual says it is fine to use E10.
Furball, I know what you mean. It is tiring hearing all of these fables over and over again. Short of like a broken record. You can always hit the ignore button.
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furball64801
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Missouri
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Message Posted: Jul 4, 2011 8:28:38 PM
Cummings I dont have to answer to you or anyone else bozo. I have run as high as 80% or more with no issues. My car runs just great and I have yet done anything but regular oil changes and got tires. How many can say after 5 yrs they can do that put in fuel, my mix not yours and replaced tires and oil, not many but I still and will always stand by my results at my age I dont need to play games with little boys.
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Cummins2500
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Iowa
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Message Posted: Mar 31, 2010 2:38:05 PM
Furball64801,
Why do you refuse to tell us why you no longer claim to be using 70% Ethanol? Could it be you either had problems and don't want to admit it or was it because you got caught in a Lie?
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furball64801
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Missouri
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Message Posted: Mar 31, 2010 10:29:14 AM
Hi Dennis flex means a vehicle that is produced to run both gasoline and E-85 your vehicle might handle what they call splashing which Silverstreaker mentioned and what I did. I started with 20% mix in mine ran that mix for several months. I know several that run a higher mix but with your vehicle being older it will have gunk built up from gasoline so be aware of that. I love my 60% mix but it took time to get there so if you want to test it give it a try I dont think 20% can do any harm to the vehicle.
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SilverStreaker
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Twin Cities
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Message Posted: Mar 29, 2010 1:11:39 PM
dennislg2006, I assume that by "flex-fuel", you are talking about E-85, which varies from 70% to 85% ethanol, depending on the time of the year and the state where you buy the fuel.
I started mixing E85 with gas for over 2 years, in my 2000 Windstar when it had about 90,000 miles on it and my 2003 Honda CRV when it had about 65,000 miles. I have had no ethanol related performance or maintenance issues and my milage has not changed significantly.
If you are going to try it, make sure that you start out by adding E-85 in very small amounts at a time, considering that you have 17 years of gunk and water in your fuel tank from the gasoline. A high amount of ethanol will clean your tank, but clog your filter or worse, clog injectors or put deposits on your cylinders. I wouldn't add more than 5% extra at a time and run at least 3 tanks through before increasing.
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dennislg2006
Rookie Author
Austin
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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2010 9:42:00 AM
is flex-fuel the same stuff as the new 10% eth...
if so, since it is much cheaper, can i mix it with normal gas in an older '93 4cyl ford ranger? anyone tried this yet?
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Cummins2500
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Iowa
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Message Posted: Feb 10, 2010 2:34:05 PM
jedi,
I owned a 1987 Nissan that stated it was not recommended to use ethanol gas other, when Oregon forced everyone to E10 in the winter the carb in that car was in shot, so after talking to the Nissan mechanic I went and traded the car off as no way was I going to pay big $$$ to import carb parts.
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JediKnight
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Wisconsin
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2010 3:02:36 PM
Expanding on Cummins2500's last post.
Earlier Chrysler vehicles (before 1990) should be able to run E10 without issues too. I'd be particularly surprised if vehicles made after 1979/1980 don't at least mention E10 (Gasohol/Ethanol/E10) and if/how your vehicle is to use it (or not).
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furball64801
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Missouri
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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2010 7:41:40 PM
Still running my 60% ethanol mix and both non ffv cars are running fine. The reason I believe is you just have to start early and just add over the months. I have never had an issue with either car, things are well here in Mo glad I tried it 4 yrs ago its paid off very well.
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movrshakr
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Florida
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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2010 6:35:38 PM
.
Anybody 'cept him know what a Blutech system is?
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